Sexism and Internalized Racism: A Case Study

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Koji Steven Sakai has contributed several articles to 8asians.com, a relatively popular Asian American blog, including: “Do Asian Women Have the Smallest Breasts?,” “Asian Men and Penis Size,” and “Do Asian Women Have the Smallest Vaginas?”

I will explain how these articles are sexist and only serve to perpetuate stereotypes about Asian women and also why someone would feel the need to write them. (That he mentions Asian penises does not make the other two articles any less harmful.)

There are many layers going on here. And I will go more at length with these topics in other posts, but for now I will try to lay a basic groundwork of information:

All of us are hurt when young by not getting enough closeness and affection. But boys are especially hurt by the expectation that they do not need closeness or affection (after the age of seven or even five) and grow up with even more isolation and loneliness than women. So by the time they are in their twenties and thirties they usually do not have a clue how to reach out and be close to women even if they are craving that closeness. Asian men have also been doubly hurt in this society— by the racism towards Asian men in this country which then adds onto the early hurts. They already feel bad about themselves so it is not so hard to convince them to internalize the racism as well.

In Koji’s articles he brandishes “scientific study” as his reason for setting out on his quest for “the truth” about Asian female breasts and vaginas. However, I’d venture that his reasons for setting out to write these articles, including Asian men’s penis sizes, is quite personal. (Unlike Roger Fan in his short film, The Quest for Length, where Fan is very open and honest about his insecurities.) Why is Koji so curious to know about the exact measurements of Asian women’s body parts? Why doesn’t he ask about what it’s in their minds? I propose that these writings suggest a loneliness and desperation for contact with another human being, specifically women.

All of this does not excuse Koji from the fact that he is being blatantly sexist and oppressive to women when he publishes articles like these. It is one thing to think such thoughts, another to publicly declare them. I also believe 8asians.com should be held responsible for permitting and publishing such sexist content.

What do I mean by sexism? Another way to explain sexism is to use the term “male domination.” That usually helps clarify it for people. We live in a world where rape is commonly and intentionally used as a weapon of war. Where the widespread violence against women and their bodies is worldwide, and media and capitalism combine to convince women to seriously harm our own bodies. And we as Asian women have an added layer because of the double oppression of both sexism and racism.

And it is within this context that a relatively prominent Asian American male feels he has the right to talk about women’s body parts and, specifically, Asian women’s body parts carelessly and with no regard for oppressions at large. He is dehumanizing and objectifying women by doing so. Koji says, “According to the World Map of Average Breast Size… South Asian women are bigger with an average “B” breast cup. Go South Asians!” He does not consider the rampant violence on women’s bodies in our society, including sex trafficking, child trafficking, or domestic violence. He uses examples of soft porn as supposed science. He ends with a plea, “Please email photos of your boobs to koji[a]8asians.com. I wouldn’t say no to an inbox full of ‘research.’ ” Joking is really an excuse to say what one really wants without taking any responsibility for it.

The Asian American community generally is still more aware of racism than sexism. In all of my years studying Asian American studies in high school and in college not once do I remember learning about sexism within the Asian American community or sexism in Asian American history. I learned about a few Asian American women’s achievements, but not about sexism specifically. It would have made a huge difference to me if I had.

Men are not aware of their sexism, nor do they want to hear about it since it makes them feel bad. The “bad feelings” then turn to anger and defensiveness since they already feel bad underneath. Meanwhile, women are not aware of sexism either. We women have a general pattern of not taking charge of our relationships with men and instead want to blame them for our difficulties. This is something men and women both need to work on.

No one is bad for having oppressor patterns. We all carry them. The first step is to become aware of them. One can do so by listening to those in the oppressed groups and by learning from them.

EDIT: Sign the petition to request 8asians to stop posting sexist content!

https://www.change.org/petitions/tell-8asianscom-to-stop-posting-sexist-articles

  • Susan

    thanks for the post, i recenlty heard about 8asians and was considering their “range” of articles. I wasn’t sure I felt the quality ones balanced out the sexist ones….. I should stick with my gut instincts

    • http://www.shiuanbutler.com Shiuan

      Hey Susan! Long time.
      Yes, unfortunately I feel there is a great dearth of Asian feminist websites. Sure, there are plenty of pop culture/Asian American sites, and there are some popular Asian American females sites, but the former deals with racism and pop culture and the latter deals with fashion and pop culture (basically). All the feminist sites are either white or other women of color–blacks and latinas. We Asian women have to get out there more and make our voices heard! If you have any thoughts or suggestions I’d love to hear them.

      Hope all’s well.

      Shiuan

  • James

    I actually ran into this in school yesterday. Why do so many women feel the need to live up to stereotypes set by rich Hollywood imbecile. So many people are beautiful just the way they are and don’t need to worry about the sizes of anything.

    The articles you linked were expectedly sad in their own right, the comments were worse. People buy into these things too easy. Looks will only go so far. Who you are is what matters. Anyone worth any time (friendship or relationship) will look at you for who you are and not how you look.

    • http://www.shiuanbutler.com Shiuan

      Thanks James for the thoughtful comments. Honestly, it’s refreshing to hear men upset about sexism (men degrading women) and internalized sexism (women degrading themselves). And I’m glad you’ve figured out it’s the inside that counts—many people haven’t and never will.

      Best,
      Shiuan

      • James

        Unfortunately, it’s the basic problem with sexism, racism, and I guess just about any ‘ism. It’s easier to judged people by how they look than by their actions (or who they are) because it’s right in front of you.

        Only through understanding (getting to know people) can we overcome this problem. As lazy humans (can be read Americans) we generally take the path of least resistance. To understand takes effort; bigotry is easy.

        I recently read a play called The Gate of Heaven that does a better job at explaining this than me. I also realize I am preaching to the choir, but I like it when ideas fall into place.

  • http://twitter.com/DrumJ8 Edmond Aggabao

    I don’t personally know either party here, and I don’t typically post anything. But there’s a first time for everything.

    Koji Steven’s article entitled “Do Asian Women Have the Smallest Breasts?” discusses mostly breasts of Asian women. You respond with references to rape, sex trafficking, and violence against women. Really?

    In addition, you attack the author, stating he may have “a loneliness and desperation for contact with another human being, specifically women.” Imho you seem to be reading quite in depth into a short article about breasts.

    I don’t see how he, as you state, is “being blatantly sexist and oppressive to women when he publishes articles like these.” He admits in the article itself that “I know that this whole article is rather inane and immature” and in the end acknowledges that “any statement that begins with “all (fill in race) have big/small (whatever)” is probably racist and not totally accurate.” I read the title of his article and I understood the point. I don’t understand your entry.

    I don’t understand how acknowledging that stereotypes exist automatically leads to their perpetuation. Will turning away and completely ignoring them make them go away? Steven’s article was comedic in tone and for me a disconnect exists between his statements and an attack response. And your stating that “Joking is really an excuse to say what one really wants without taking any responsibility for it.” Do you like comedic movies or not at all ever? I’m not sure if he was joking. I would love it if I was emailed photos of women’s breasts, to be quite honest. Yes, it’s kind of funny, but yes, it’s completely true. Does that make me a horrible person? Should I delete them to make the world a better place? Should I force myself to not enjoy them, and if so, how? If I look at them, am I advocating violence against women?

    Look, sorry, I don’t mean to step on your or anyone’s toes, that has never been my modus operandi, but basically my point is that, NO, I will not be signing this petition and I don’t think anyone should. And between the two, I honestly would rather visit 8asians than this website. There’s a better chance I’d get a laugh over there, and here I think I’d just end up feeling bad about myself for being myself. I don’t want to visit a website and feel bad about myself for it. I have my own life for that. And they have quality articles too; everyone has their own opinion and thus many different interpretations are inevitable, this comment of mine being a prime example. People may think the 8asians articles are sexist; I, for one, do not. Your entry is just a kind of a downer, that’s all. It’s like this:

    Breasts = happy; violence against women = I know it exists, and I wasn’t thinking about it but now I am. How am I supposed to enjoy House Hunters now”

    I’m not a writer, I don’t have a website or write in a blog, this is just one humble opinion of a lowly temporary office worker, but I have a voice too.

    Good luck to you and your endeavors, peace out, but people, don’t sign this petition.

    • http://www.shiuanbutler.com Shiuan

      Hi Edmond,

      Actually the article wasn’t about breasts at all. It was about his fascination with them and wanting to figure out if a certain group has a certain size of them. It was a glimpse into his inner wonderings and fantasies with boobs on an Asian American blog. Really?

      By focusing on the body parts (in this case breasts and vaginas) and not the women, he is taking away women’s individualities. This dehumanizes women. I mention rape and violence against women as these crimes can happen because of the male-dominated atmosphere in a society that dehumanizes women.

      And I don’t understand his reasons for posting his “rather inane and immature” article as he claims. What was the reason of his article then? Other than for a bunch of guys to get together and chuckle about how they would love to get an inbox full of “research” of “boobs.” I get that in Playboy, but 8asians? A comedic tone is just an excuse for him to not take responsibility for his sexism. It has nothing to do with funny movies. How would you feel if a white guy called you a chink jokingly? Would you excuse it because it is “funny”?

      Koji’s articles weren’t simply acknowledging the stereotypes. He was cheering South Asian women on for having a “larger than average” breast size. He was giving us his personal take on his breast preferences. Something I expect in a men’s locker room, not when I browse an Asian American blog.

      What I think most people don’t understand is the connection between joking about boobs, and vaginas and legs and “hawtness” and how that has any connection with violence against women. Many men and women think it’s innocent. It’s not. Michael Kimmel and the group, A CALL TO MEN: The National Association of Men and Women Committed to Ending Violence Against Women, do a great job of explaining the link between how a society that upholds traditional masculinity trains “well-meaning men” to “inadvertently contribute to normalizing violence against women.”

      Most men won’t agree when someone calls them out on their sexism. Most people in an oppressor group do not want to admit to their oppressive patterns. That is a given. Thank you for sharing that you end up feeling bad about yourself when you read my site. That is not my intention. I write my blog mostly in hopes to help other young women and Asian American women to realize they are not the only ones dealing with struggles such as domestic violence, or struggling with family, or standing up for oneself. Thus, they are usually not very light or funny as they are not light or funny topics. My friends call me easygoing with a dry sense of humor in person, but I am not one to talk about superficial topics for long periods of time. And yes, like you said, that’s why most movies are silly and have happy endings because most people hope to escape their own realities and life stresses when they see one. And thus why documentaries, like Rape of the Congo, are not “popular.”

      My intention is not to make you feel bad as a man. If you want to learn a little about sexism then this could be a place to start. If you considered how you could make a difference and how you potentially want the world to be for your sisters or daughters then maybe you might hear some of what I have to say.

      Thanks for reading.
      Best,
      Shiuan

  • http://www.yumyumcha.com bill poon

    Although I’m a friend of Joz and thus indirectly, of 8asians, like most tv, group blogs or message boards, there is always some stories we like and some we don’t. I guess they’re popular enough that the article, as uninteresting as it was, was worth mentioning? I’m just afraid that all the linking done now is just increasing their hit numbers and a waste of readers time. But I understand activate activist go deal.

    Also, I notice above, one of your tweets “Tell @8asians to stop reinforcing negative stereotypes of Asian American women”. Are you inferring that “small breasts” (weather its true or not) is a “negative”. No, I have no fetish regarding “small” breast but was surprised that its automatic considered a “negative”. Why not just say “stereotypes” or are piano playing smart Asian ok to write about?

    • http://www.shiuanbutler.com Shiuan

      Hi Bill,

      Thanks for writing. I didn’t consider the articles simply “uninteresting.” He is contributing to a norm of objectifying women which inadvertently contributes to normalizing violence against women.

      I don’t understand the line: But I understand activate activist go deal.

      All stereotypes contribute to generalization of a group of people and thus are negative to perpetuate. I do not support stereotypes that seem to be putting Asians in a positive light either as that still puts them in a category and encourages people to see them as “the other.”

      S.

  • http://www.asianamericannation.com David

    I see myself as a male feminist and I don’t see any sexism in Koji Steven Sakai’s articles. Before anyone judges something or someone, they need to put things into context. We live in a society where Asian women are fetishized and stereotyped by non-Asian men.

    Sakai’s articles which were mentioned here actively fight against racist stereotypes of Asian and Asian American women. They are against the sexism and racism of white American men.

    In no way did he ever stated or inferred that the size of a woman’s breasts should dictate her treatment. In other words, he never stated that women with small breasts should be dominated. Please don’t fall into the men-who-mention-breasts are always sexist paradigm of the so-called feminist.

    The condemnation of Sakai for sexism is unjust. Did Sakai create the stereotype that Asian men have small penises? Did Sakai stereotype Asian women as petite with small breasts? Did Sakai stereotype Asian women as having “tight” or “small” vaginas? All these stereotypes came from white men and perpetuated by other non-Asian men.

    The so-called feminists are out of their minds. They seem to want men to erase the words “breast”, “boobs”, “vagina”, “pussy”, etc. out of their vocabulary. They want them to be temporarily blind when there are naked women before their eyes. They want women to give permission when a man can have an erection or not. My contention is that even a male feminist isn’t dead down under. A man can talk about or look at breasts without being a sexist. It’s not the mention of a woman’s body parts that makes a man a sexist. It’s what he wants to do to those body parts that makes him a sexist.

    There is nothing wrong with someone who wants an inbox full of pictures of breasts. If the article about breasts was written by a woman, would she be called a sexist or even a sell-out to feminists? If this same woman written the article about penises and asked for a inbox full of pictures of penises, would she be labeled a sexist? If the same things that are said about a man couldn’t be said for a woman, then there isn’t any injustice.

    Sakai is doing nothing but acknowledging the stereotypes of Asian Americans. He is defending Asian American women against the stereotypes that they are facing. He is also defending against the stereotypes that Asian men are facing. His articles belong rightfully in an Asian American blog.

  • kim

    1. You completely missed the point of the posts on 8asians.

    2. I’m curious if you fight this hard against white male racist sexism against Asian women because I am an Asian woman and have seen dozens more examples of websites (not just porn), commercials and movies created by white males that exoticize, orientalize, over-sexualize and objectify our Asian body parts for other white males. Not to mention the number of times white males have approached me in person and spouted off the same examples.

    • http://www.shiuanbutler.com Shiuan

      Hi Kim,
      Sexism towards Asian females from white males is certainly extremely relevant and still permitted in this country. I did not and am not saying that sexism from Asian males is worse than from white males. (It’s not.) Comparing oppression does not get us anywhere. Rather, I want to raise awareness of sexism everywhere including from our own Asian men, and ask questions such as — why is it difficult for us as Asian women to talk about sexism from Asian men in the U.S.?

      Thanks for reading.